Have you ever wondered what it takes to create truly engaging content that keeps your audience coming back for more?

If so, you’re in luck.

Because the hugely successful and inspiring online entrepreneur and founder of Smart Passive Income, Pat Flynn, is back on the Niche Pursuits podcast to share his valuable insights!

This time, it’s all about YouTube and how to succeed on the platform.

Pat’s a family man and joined his kids down a Pokemon rabbit hole.

Eventually, his YouTube suggestions were monopolized by related content, and after reading through comments in the community, he discovered there was still untapped potential.

So he started his Pokemon-focused channel Deep Pocket Monster in January 2021 and, within a year, had 100k subscribers.

Fast forward to today, and his channel has well over 600k subs and has become an incredibly profitable venture.

In today’s interview, he dives into how he did it.

He provides tons of actionable advice on:

  • Why he chose the niche
  • The importance of community and connection in the age of AI
  • How to hook an audience at the beginning and end of a video
  • The 2-3 most important YouTube metrics to focus on
  • Whether you should focus on long-form or short-form content

And also deep dives into the power of story – and how it will always outshine production value.

He recommends keeping a close eye on performance after publishing and gives tips on when to try different thumbnails and titles for a second wind in the algorithm.

And Pat offers sage advice on what metrics really matter for your success.

Pat’s phenomenal success as a YouTuber in the Pokemon space can be (at least partially) attributed to his deep understanding of YouTube’s inner workings and his audience’s desires.

His strategy of continually experimenting with video formats and analyzing data has paid off in spades. Even with a lean team behind his YouTube channel, he’s managed to amass a loyal following and generate impressive profits.

And this is an excellent interview to inspire you to do the same.

Don’t miss it!

Topics Pat Flynn Covers

  • What he’s been up to since his last appearance on the podcast
  • His first niche site
  • Why he started Smart Passive Income
  • Importance of paying it forward
  • Testing ideas on others
  • Why he created his Pokemon-focused YouTube channel
  • The different types of content he creates for it
  • Revenue breakdown
  • Reading video comments
  • Standing out by building communities and connections
  • Storytelling tips
  • Niching down to build subscribers
  • The most important YouTube metrics to analyze
  • Short-form vs. Long-form content
  • Great recommendations for landing brand deals
  • And a whole lot more…

This Episode is Sponsored by Search Intelligence

Watch The Interview


Jared: Welcome back to the Niche Pursuits Podcast. My name is Jared Bauman, and today we’re joined by Pat Flynn with Smart Passive Income. Pat, welcome on board.

Pat: it’s great to be back after a decade. We were just talking about this, um, a lot has happened since then, but thank you for having me. I was talking 

Jared: with Spencer about having you on, and he said it’ll be great to have, uh, pat back on the, on the podcast.

And I said, I didn’t know he was on the podcast, so I had to literally scroll forever to pull up the episode. It was, uh, released on May 21st, 2012. So here we are, I mean, almost 13, uh, almost 11 years later to the day in 2023. So welcome. 

Pat: Thank you. Yeah, that was a pre-bid, pat Flynn, and that was, uh, you know, we just had our, our second baby at that time, and now my son is a teenager.

It’s wild, like time’s going by so quickly, but, uh, still here, online, still doing the thing. You know, some people are like, pat, you’re an og. And I’m like, that makes me sound really old. But I guess I kind of am now. 

Jared: It’s a, it’s a term of endearment, I have to say. It’s gotta, you know, it, it’s good. It’s, it’s better than the alternative, right?

You could, I guess you could have some other something else, uh, cast your way, so That’s true. That’s true. I mean, obviously, um, you know, the smart passive income brand almost speaks for itself, for anybody who’s gotten involved in online marketing and, and in the, the passive income world. It’s, I’ve known of smart passive income in you for, for quite a while now, and I’m sure most listeners.

We’ll have a little bit of knowledge about you, but maybe if you could try to catch people up on 15 years Sure. Of your history in a short period of time. Maybe go some backstory before we jump into what we’re talking about today, which I’m really excited about. 

Pat: Yeah, so in 2008, that’s when I started my entrepreneurial journey online and I was sort of forced into it.

I had gotten laid off from my architecture job. I had planned to do that for the rest of my life. But the recession happened. I got kicked out and I started an online business. Got a lot of inspiration from listening to podcasts and reading books and stuff at the, uh, around the time that we’re talking about online business.

Never had tried it before. But what I created actually worked out, I had built a website to help people pass an architectural exam. This was my first, uh, niche website, if you will, a very specific exam in the architecture space called the Lead Exam. I built a website for that, uh, to help people pass that exam.

I ended up publishing a PDF file study guide and just kind of figuring things along, uh, uh, out along the way. And in late October of 2008, I had generated more money than I was making as an architect that I had spent years leading up to. And I was like, wow, this is very different than where I thought I was going, but let me, let me keep going down this path.

And so I did and eventually ended up, uh, creating a website called smart passive income.com that a lot of people. Uh, know about now. And that is where I just basically shared everything that I was working on in my architecture, online business, and then future online businesses that I created and sort of shared publicly everything from a security guard training website to building iPhone apps, uh, to starting a food truck website, to then building software.

And more recently some stuff in the world of YouTube and community and online courses. And it’s just been amazing because I, I still get emails from people who say, you know, they, they had listened to my podcast or who had read my income reports back in the day who, uh, started a new career or trajectory in their life because of my podcast or the blog or something.

And it’s just, it’s just, you know, really cool to see a lot of that stuff that was built and created a long time ago. Still continuing to help people today, which is, which is amazing. I’ve sold a few, uh, businesses here and there. I have written several books I’ve speak in, uh, spoken on stage. Even without proper grammar.

Uh, and I am just grateful for, for just the ability to now see opportunity and to, to, to no longer feel like even if I lost everything that I’d be, you know, uh, that, that I’d be done for. Like, I know that. Now after a decade, I have the skills to be able to sort of find, uh, opportunities to solve those problems and, and to create something new, which is my favorite thing to do.

You know, I have systems in place and automation in place with a lot of the businesses I have. Um, another business I created in 2017 to 19 was a physical product. My videographer and I invented a product called the Switch Pod. It was a tripod for, for vloggers, and that did very well, and that’s mostly automated right now too.

So as you can see, I have my hands and, and feet in a lot of different things. The common pattern is just, I like to create new things and I like to, uh, explore my curiosity and, and help people at the same. 

Jared: Yeah. Good job. You, you, you really actually covered so many of the things you, that you’ve done in, in a, in a good amount of time.

Well done. I like that. Yeah. Not too long, I guess. No, no, not at all. Well, you’ve got so much and that’s what kinda what I was gonna, I was gonna say, I mean, I feel like everything you’ve done, and probably not everything, but it feels like everything you’ve done, you’ve shared semi or completely publicly. Um, every, I mean, I can even think about a book you launched.

I can think. The po, the, um, the, uh, the podcast tool that, that, that you launched along the way. And, um, you know, dating all the way back to some of these niche websites that you built. And there’s a lot of crossover there because a lot of this audience, uh, you know, perhaps back in the early days, started listening to different niche site projects that Spencer was doing.

But, um, you know, you’ve always shared it very publicly. I think maybe we can use this to launch into what we’re talking about today. Uh, which is the, the Pokemon YouTube brand that you started, and I, I can’t wait to talk about this. We could pick almost any of those things you mentioned though, to go into depth on, but you’ve always had this desire, even going all the way back to your architecture training, uh, website or blog.

So like to share publicly about a journey before it. Successful making money. I mean, I think I remember hearing, um, that you didn’t even really know people were, were going to that original blog back in the day, and then it turns out that you learned how to monetize it and make it successful. What’s the drive for you to share publicly before you’re even successful?

That’s scary. That’s, you know, you could fail. All these different things go. 

Pat: I think it’s just, it’s almost like the, the, how it’s made in real time. You know, we all love watching how it’s made on the science channel, discovery channel. And it’s like, we j we just love to see how the, the thing gets created and you know, I like even, even on short form video right now, you know, there’s a lot of creators who are.

Showing the process of how they do something. It’s just so fascinating. We, we, we, we dive into that. And so for me, when I was becoming an entrepreneur, it was always fascinating to find those who were willing to share what worked and what didn’t. Cuz that was super helpful for me. Mm-hmm. And it was through that journey of, of trying to find that information that I then discovered myself and discovered what I could, what I could do.

Uh, so I always sort of like feel, it’s, it’s like a way for me to pay it forward for those who opened up and were transparent for me. Uh, and it just so happens that I, I get. Real-time feedback. When I share things like the income reports or the niche site dual that I did, or, and, and, and, you know, wins or fails, it’s always a lesson.

Therefore, it is always a win. And that, that’s what I love about that as well. Um, plus it’s just, I, I love the challenge. I think I just so much enjoy the discovery of new paths to different solutions and it’s just like, it’s like a puzzle to me. And it’s like, if, like, if, like imagine a puzzle. That you create or that like a puzzle you buy at the store, like a thousand pieces.

Like imagine only enjoying it when you have all a thousand pieces down. It’s like, well then what’s the point of the puzzle? Mm-hmm. Well the point of the puzzle is to find those pieces that fit and, you know, when you like find one that fits, it just feels so good. Like I feel that discovery every time as I’m trying to figure things out, even if I don’t see the full picture yet.

Uh, and that’s what’s just so fun about it. And, and that, that is another thing I try to do with my process is just find the fun. Cuz if it’s not fun, it’s like, why am I, why am I. Doing this. And even though things are hard and, and potentially even stressful, I still try to find the fun within it because that’s what keeps it going and that’s what keeps it exciting and, and that’s what leads to when I do find the solution or that puzzle piece, it feeling really good.

And that amping me up to go and then find the next piece. 

Jared: One, one more question along, along those lines before we, before we get into the Pokemon, uh Sure. YouTube channel and I, I think it’s just so interesting and important to hear your answer on this. Um, How important has it been, do you think, in the success of a lot of these projects, that you shared it publicly and that you had that to keep you accountable and almost drive you further to succeed?

A bit. And I’m asking cuz a lot of us spend time building websites or apps or whatever it is we’re doing in kind of privacy, and so we mm-hmm. We don’t have to be accountable to anyone but ourselves. And sometimes we’re our worst, our worst, uh, people to be accountable to. How important was it? Some of this stuff was public and it almost forced you to keep pushing to be, to make it a success.

Pat: I mean, it’s, it’s so important for, for several reasons. The accountability piece is really key, especially for somebody like me who’s motivated by, you know, being of service to others. I’m an Enneagram three, and that’s very much in my d n a. So for just the purpose of production. Putting things out there and having other people be involved and invested in it, encourages me to keep going.

But even more important than that, and, and something I discovered actually, uh, around 2010 when Spencer and I were kind of, uh, you know, long Tail Pro was, was like the big thing. And, and we were all kind of in that niche site world. You know, a big thing that I wanted to do was also build software. Uh, I saw Spencer do it.

I saw, uh, so many other people do it, and I was like, I have an audience that’s bigger than these people. I could create something too. So I had built a WordPress plugin in secret to then launch it to the audience and, and kind of go big with it. I was very encouraged by other people who were sharing what they were doing in the world of software.

So I created my own and a project that was supposed to take six months and about $6,000. Uh, or six weeks and $6,000. Ended up taking like eight months in $18,000 because I just didn’t know what I was doing. And then it finally got to the point where I was happy with the product and there was a lot of back and forth and a lot of, uh, you know, just miscommunication with the developers.

But finally I got something good. I shared it. And it just was a flop. I, I didn’t even go to market with it because it just, it just didn’t even make sense really for people. And they were like, oh, this is kind of cool. And probably the hardest part of that process. And that launch was, or the, I didn’t even launch it, but the hardest part of that was hearing the feedback of people after I’d spent all that time of what would make it even better.

Oh, it should do this, or, it is kind of close, but what if it did this instead? Or, you know, I don’t need that, but I need this. And I was like, why didn’t I have these conversations ahead of time? First so I can discover what not to do, or that the path I thought was the right path was not the right path.

And this is what actually inspired my book. Will It Fly? Which is how to test your next business idea so you don’t waste your time and money. You need to be open and, and and, uh, upfront about these things. And yes, there is that sort of thing in the back of your head that says, oh, well, somebody might steal my idea.

Right? Which is always what we say, but the truth is, you are gonna get more benefit of sharing your idea and getting all the people to poke holes in it first. As opposed to, you know, the, the very slim chance that somebody would steal it, and even if they did, you’re not. You, you’re gonna add yourself into it and you’re the one working on it.

People will say they, they want to do something, but they never do. Uh, so for that reason, it’s important to share these things because you can also have people sort of help create the thing with you. That’s what the Switch Pod did. This was a physical product. We actually developed a prototype and then went to conferences with this prototype that didn’t even look very well, and we just gave it to creators and said, Hey, do you like the feel of this?

Do you like the idea? What do you like? What, what, what do you wanna see instead? And yes, there was always the risk that one of them could have, you know, manufactured the thing on their own, but they were so busy anyway, right. It was our job to figure out what was gonna work and what wasn’t. And then essentially this product that was now 13 iterations later wasn’t built by us.

It was built by the people who left the feedback for it. And now that it came out, when we launched it in February of 2019, they already had seen it. It was basically marketing built into the research process, and they were all rooting for it to succeed. Mm-hmm. So all those people shared it. So much benefit in, in, in getting those people involved ahead of time and, and almost working in public.

Yeah, I was gonna say the 

Jared: buy-in alone, you almost have pre-marketing done by the number of people that you get to work with from building it in public and stuff, so, wow. Exactly. Great, great thoughts. Um, let’s transition into kind of the meat and potatoes of today. Like I said, we could dive into so many of your projects and really unpack.

Uh, I encourage everyone to go smart passive income.com, your podcast. Um, if they want to just really n kind of nerd out. You also have a lot of guests you bring on and, and talk with them on the podcast about what they’re succeeding in and whatnot. Let’s talk about this YouTube channel, though. Let’s talk about this Pokemon brand.

Yeah, you started, I, I, that’s what I reached out to you about for the podcast. Cause I just think we’re talking about YouTube a lot more here and what you’ve done over the last, um, like two plus years here is really phenomen. And I just want to unpack it with you, maybe set the stage for this YouTube channel Deep Pocket monster.

The impetus behind it, the inspiration behind it, and then we’ll, we’ll kind of dive into the details. 

Pat: So I started on YouTube, uh, back in oh nine actually with my Pat Flynn channel. And that channel was just such a slog. I didn’t know what I was doing, didn’t have any help, didn’t, didn’t try to figure out what was gonna work on YouTube.

It was just sort of a rep, a repository for videos here and there. You know, I have had some videos do really well there, like my podcast tutorial, which has been seen by millions of people. But you know, in general, when I published a video, It, it, it doesn’t do very well there comparatively to what I’ve now created.

Um, in 2020, of course, the pandemic happened. Everybody was sitting at home and the collectibles world just exploded. Everything from Pokemon to sports cards to comics, like people were just like, I need to find Joyce somewhere. So collectibles was, was. Booming. Uh, and I got sucked into that actually. My kids were into Pokemon first and got me into it, and then I started like I do with everything with them.

Um, I started doing research cuz I wanna learn more about it. I did the same thing when they were into Fortnite and stuff and I was like, okay, well I’m gonna learn how to play Fortnite so we can play together. I did the same approach with Pokemon and I just ended up diving so deep into this space, so much so that I just, my, my, like, you know, when you sign into YouTube it shows you recommendations?

Yeah. Like all the videos were about Pokemon. I had no idea that I was gonna start a Pokemon channel. It was just, I, I was sucked into this world and some of the people who were creating their, um, I, I, I just loved watching them so much. They were going live. I ended up becoming a moderator for one of the channels and, um, using that opportunity just to kind of learn more about who’s here and, and what’s happening in this space.

Again, no idea that I was gonna create a YouTube channel yet, and I discovered that a lot of these people were just like me. In fact, you know, Pokemon is, you know, built for kids, but a lot of the people who were once kids who are now grownups, who now have money to spend, are the ones watching these videos and collecting and investing and flipping and doing all these other.

And they’re doing it with their kids too, which is pretty cool. And that was like me, Hey, I’m gonna bring, you know, I wanna do this with my kids as well. Well, after maybe three or four months of doing that, I discovered that, uh, you know, my entrepreneurial brain turns on eventually with these things and it’s like, You know, there’s some opportunity here.

I think there’s somebody who can come in, who can bring some story into this space, some really nice cinematography. A lot of these people were doing the exact same things and, and, and didn’t really understand, uh, marketing, didn’t really understand story, didn’t really understand content creation, but they were still doing very successful things.

Showing and opening up and, and opening up cards and, uh, having fun. And the cool thing about the world of Pokemon Especi, Packs and boxes that you open is, is, there’s a built-in mystery inside of a pack, right? You open the pack and it might be the gold card, it might be the really extremely rare, uh, alternate art card that we’ve all been looking for in there.

You never know. So as a viewer, You kind of watch and then you kind of hope it’s there. And if it’s there, you get just as excited as the person who’s opening it on, on video. Um, so I was like, you know what? I think I wanna start a YouTube channel, and I think I could provide some, some help to this space, uh, and, and hopefully lead by example and, and just kind of inspire people in, in some way.

So then it was like, okay. I can’t come in and pretend like I’m an expert cause I’m not. I don’t know anything in this space, in fact. And is that going to, uh, stunt my growth? Well, if I pretended to be an expert and didn’t have the knowledge, of course it would. So I knew that I was just gonna come in and, and be sort of a newbie in the space and be upfront about that.

Like I have been like with everything else. Can I compete on these other people’s collections? No. Cuz my collection was really small so I can’t pretend like I have the biggest collection and, and, and, and use that as a, a way to drive people in because there are people who’ve been doing this for 20 years and have a much more massive collection.

I am I gonna be able to compete on, uh, finding the really rare trophy cards and all these kinds of things? No. Cuz I don’t have that much money to spend on cards that are worth six figures now. Who, uh, these people have been holding for a while and then now these things are appreciating. So what can I do?

Well, I can come in and be the person who is sharing my collection journey with everybody. Again, very similar to what we were talking about before. Just kind of follow along and I’m gonna share in, in creative ways the things I’m learning as I try to build my collection and, um, And that, and that’s that.

That was my approach. That was gonna be my positioning. But I also knew that I, having YouTube experience from the past, knew how to make great thumbnails and titles, cuz I finally figured that out and I could tell great story, which I’ve learned how to do on podcasts and books and on stage. So let me combine all those things.

And then in January of 2021, I created the YouTube channel called Deep Pocket Monster. And in one year, actually in 11 months and 23 days, we hit a hundred thousand subscribers. And we are now about two years and three to four months into it, and we’re just about to cross 600,000 subscribers, which subscribers is, is one metric, but I mean, that just shows you how much faster this thing was growing.

My other channel took nine years to get to a hundred thousand subscribers. I was able to do that in less than one year with this channel. Now the Pokemon thing is crazy too because of the reach that these videos are getting. Um, a couple videos that I publish. Got on the trending page on YouTube. Mm-hmm.

Uh, millions of views within just a couple days. And no, these are not shorts, these are longs. These are regular videos. And that, and that’s the unique thing that I’m bringing into this space as well. Longer videos cuz a lot of creators are going more short for ’em. But telling good stories has, has been a really, really, uh, important component of this.

Um, and then now we’re at a point where we have three or four different buckets of videos that we contribute to. So one of those buckets, Uh, where I’m buying somebody else’s collection and I share that collection and I, and I give away some of the cards, uh, that I pick up in that collection to people on livestream.

So that’s one bucket that has been very successful. Another bucket is where I, uh, do these videos where I try to complete sets, right? There are sets that come out every few months and I try to complete them within a certain period of time, and those have become very popular. There’s a set of videos that, uh, where I, I purchase things from websites and we kind of see are they actually worth the amount that I’m paying for?

It’s a mystery box sort of situation, and sometimes it is and sometimes it’s not. But what is really amazing is this venture now two years into it, is probably the most profitable thing that I’ve ever put my hand into. Um, it is providing ad revenue. We’re at a point now where we’re making 35 to $50,000 a.

On ad revenue alone on YouTube, there are sponsorship spots within those videos that now command five figures per spot. There are paying members of the YouTube channel who pay a small monthly fee to just support the channel, like a Patreon, uh, type of deal on YouTube. And then there’s merch and I’m an affiliate for some products here and there, and it’s just, I don’t know how we got here.

Well, I do know how we got here. We, we, we understood how YouTube worked. And we understood exactly what our audience would be glued to the TV screen for, um, or, or their devices for, and that, and that’s really it. So I don’t know where you want to go with that, but that’s just kind of a, a, a, a, the origin story and kind of how we got to where we’re at now.

Um, analytics has been a really important thing. Diving into the analytics, going into a video and going, okay, what here are people. Really, really glued to and where do people drop off? And we’re just, every video teaches us something about the next video. Um, every thumbnail we create teaches us something about the next thumbnail we should create.

And, uh, this is a very lean thing as well. I have one producer and one editor, and that’s it. And I have on the s p I side of things, you know, 10 people working for me full-time. We have like podcasts and email newsletters and videos coming out. And with just one or two videos a. On YouTube, we’re able to surpass the revenue and and profit.

It’s just, I don’t even know. It’s just kind of a wild thing. Cuz again, I didn’t know anything about Pokemon two years ago. Well, 

Jared: I mean, if you sum that all up in so many ways, how encouraging for anybody listening. Within a year, you were seeing crazy traction. I mean, I don’t know, a hundred thousand subscribers would be crazy traction for most people and within two years.

Oh yeah, yeah. Wildly profitable about something you didn’t know a thing about two plus years ago. So that’s super encouraging. Yes. I have a ton of questions for you. 

Pat: Yeah. I think, you know, the one thing that I will say that has worked, that I carried over from everything else that I’ve done in the past is being so obsess.

With how can I serve this audience? And in this case it’s in the form of a video. How can I use the video platform to, to just make people happy and excited or teach them something in a way better than everybody else? And that’s what we’ve been hyper focused on. And that focus has led to just exponential growth and hockey stick, like curves, both on the views, subscribers and, and of course the revenue is a byproduct.

Jared: I tend to think that it is the collection of all the things you mentioned coming together that has to do with that hockey stick. And I think that’s important too because for people listening, sometimes when we listen to somebody’s success story, we think maybe we can just take little pieces of it and apply it and get results, but sometimes it actually is a collection of all those things together, which I wanna talk about because you hinted at each of those things, and in my notes I was gonna comment just how well produced these videos.

Um, you know, like I watched a couple of them and I mean, they are very well, they’re not just well edited and I think a lot of people. Think that a good YouTube video is well edited, but there’s story behind it. You’re right, there’s like a lot of story crafting behind it. Mm-hmm. Um, but also like the passion and the excitement you bring.

And it’s also very different than anything else that’s out there from my just, you know, 30 minutes of watching other Pokemon videos. But let me, let me start by going back to kind of the origin story if I could. What, what were the things as you were three months in to Pokemon, more focused, like you talked about where your.

Recommended videos was just nothing but Pokemon stuff. Like you were just obsessed over trying to, um, learn about it so you could interact with your kids on that level. But what were the things you began to see that made it in your mind a good opportunity to dive into you, you know, like what, what made it underserved?

What were the gaps? Just specifically, maybe if you could go into some of those identifiers you. 

Pat: Yes. So first and foremost, you know, I dove really deeply into the comments. When I start to get curious about something, I love to see how other people think about things, right? Like Amazon reviews are some of my favorite readings because I get to see like in the psyche of the person who bought that, why they loved something so much, or why they hated something so much, and it’s just so fascinating to me.

So I started to do the same. In the Pokemon space, in the comments, and, and you’d start to see a lot of people, uh, like there’s one person who like, basically in every video, they just open up new sets. And like in the beginning it was cool, but a lot of people started to just share how they just started getting tired of seeing the same old thing.

I started seeing comments about people saying like, Hey, you know, where’s the, you know, like, I’m looking for something new. The Pokemon communities are starting to get a little boring and, and, and dry. And so tho those are signs, right? Mm-hmm. From the community itself that there is potentially open opportunity.

Now, they’re not gonna say, oh, this is dry. Here’s bullet points of the kind of creator I would like to see. They’re not gonna often say that, and this is why when you create something to fill in one of those gaps, it’s important to know that you might not hit the nail on the head right away, but you need to experiment.

We did a lot of videos in the beginning that we. Or, uh, you know, we had a hypothesis that these were videos that the audience would like. We did a lot of, uh, really, uh, documentary style videos about historical cards that were really well produced that, uh, had a ton of research in it that, uh, you know, both the audience and YouTube’s algorithm basically said, you know, these are, these are nice, but these aren’t gonna be the things that are gonna go wide.

Um, so we took those as signs and then just continued to experiment until we found the different buckets that seem to really resonate. With the audience that, uh, we found, um, in addition to that, being a mod of a channel was great because I was able to now have conversations inside of communities with people almost directly, or, or in groups.

And it was through that, that, um, I could start to, to ask questions like, You know, who’s your favorite creator and why? You know, those kinds of questions can, uh, really help you understand like, what are people really enjoying about this, right? Because a creator might have different facets, but you can be surprised about why they like a particular creator, right?

There was one in particular who I remember who. Um, wasn’t, didn’t have the biggest collection, uh, you know, but like always brought these silly jokes into, into his content and people just like, would laugh at them or, you know, call that moment out in the comments section and it’s like interesting how that little thing that has nothing to do with Pokemon.

Is the differentiator that made people love that thing, or, or, or that moment, or, it was the memorable thing, uh, which is why, and it just, you know, I’m grateful that dad jokes come pretty normal to me, that those insert themselves into the videos so much now that they’ve just become a, a part of the culture of.

Of Deep Pocket Monster. Uh, so much so that I have been called a few times, uh, both the dad and the uncle of the Pokemon community. Um, becau because of that, which is, you know, which is really neat, uh, to, to, to see, um, other things that I’ve learned over time is that, like, there, there, there was, uh, one person, uh, named Pokey Rev, who this is the, uh, channel that I was a moderator for.

Um, he had like a, a. Alien behind him. And this was like a character, this, this alien, which had nothing to do again with Pokemon. There, there aren’t aliens in Pokemon. Uh, but it just became like a character on his stream, like this alien. And that was just so interesting to me. Uh, so much so that like the chat started saying like, Hey, alien squad, and like, like, we’re, we’re, we’re the aliens here.

We’re from, we’re not of this planet. We’re Pokemon people from outside of this world, et cetera. All referencing this alien, charact. And it’s like, wow, that’s so fascinating. And it reminds me of, you know, just certain communities or baseball teams and mascots and, and other like, cultural elements within a community that, uh, just bring that group closer together.

Right. It’s like if, you know, you know, kind of stuff. So over time on the Deep Pocket Monster channel, we’ve had certain things come up where when they do come up, we purposefully mm-hmm. Turn them into characters. That are recurring. And one of them I like, one of the buckets that I do is I, I, I buy mystery boxes from eBay or wish.com, and they’re usually pretty bad by the way.

Um, and, and I’m like, okay, well I’ll take the hit and we can all kind of open this together, but it’s, it’s, it’s gonna be my loss usually. And sometimes it’s a win. But either way it’s fun. But in one of the boxes I opened, the first thing that comes out in a Pokemon mystery box is this dish rag, like a old seventies style pattern dish rag.

I like and. Again in the video I’m like, okay, this is weird. I can just throw it aside or I can highlight this and make it a big deal, which is exactly what I did. And it kept popping up in the video. I kept wiping the table with it and then eventually I was, I went live and I just like wiped the table with the dish rag again, just to kind of like take the dust off the table cuz it was just next to me and a bunch of people on the live stream.

Yo, was that the dish rag from the video you published last week? And I was like, oh, this thing. Yeah. And it’s, it’s become such like a meme on the channel now that we have emojis that are dish rags with eyes on it. Whenever I bring it out just to wipe the table, the members just like spam the chat with the emoji of the dish rag.

And I, I will pop it into videos every once in a while, not say a word. And in the comments section people are like, oh, there’s that dish rag. And it’s like, again, those little things. Matter. It’s such a strange thing. I don’t even know if that can be taught. It just has to naturally come about as you build a community.

And that’s be become the really big thing here recently, both on S P I and in this Pokemon space is, is that word community. How do we make people feel like they belong to something? And I think that’s the thing that I nailed right away on this channel was I wasn’t the guy who had the most massive collection who is almost unrelatable.

Right, right. Super knowledge. An expert but kind of unrelatable. You’re never gonna get access to that kind of stuff. I was the person who was just like you, who’s learning about this stuff? Doesn’t know all the names of the Pokemon really. So when I read a Japanese card, I need the help from the chat, and I’m not afraid to admit that.

So nobody can say, oh, look at this person. He’s not an expert. They’ll say, yeah, Pat’s not an expert just like me. In fact, I can teach him some stuff. But, but we were all there once before too. And now people can, can, can relate to me more in that way. And a community is all about having people who relate to each other come together.

And, and, and, you know, on the outside, especially in this Pokemon space, it. People think we’re weird. We’re grown people playing with cardboard, with cartoons on it, right? We, we just collect shiny cardboard. But if you’re on the inside, this all means stuff to us. We have a common language, we have a common culture.

We can all be weird together, and in that world, we’re not weird anymore, which is why the community aspect is really big and why we have a discord with over 5,000 people in it, and why people show up every single week to my live streams that have four to 5,000 people all at the same time watching from all around the world.

And why I get emails from people who say, pat, you are the reason why. I am happy because the rest of my, I’m getting bullied at school or, you know, work sucks, but when I come home and I watch your streams, like I can just be a nerd with you. Thank you so much. And it’s just like, Wow. I remember getting bits of that in the S P I world with people who were wanting to be entrepreneurs and everybody else was telling them to get a, get a real job.

Very similar thing. But here in the Pokemon space, it’s even wider and bigger and cross-generational and, and it’s just, you know, the same kind of thing. Community, bringing people together, using the content to show that relatability. And this is why, like in my challenge video, Sometimes I fail the challenges and people love to see that they fail.

Not just because you know that they wanna see somebody fail, but because you know, that’s, that’s relat. That’s relatable, but that failure makes it when I win or complete those challenges that much better. And, and people can relate to that as well. And they almost feel like they’re like, you know, if I win something, we’re all winning it in a way.

Well, I was gonna draw 

Jared: the connection you, you did it perfectly. Like it. As you talk about the origin story of the Pokemon YouTube channel, it seems to remind me. Part and parcel for the origin story of smart passive. A smart passive income, right? Like you, you, you kind of, and I’m sure it wasn’t exactly the same, but you, at that time of your life, you were diving deep into this world of making money online and didn’t know anything about it and was Yeah, exactly.

Logging about it, sharing about it. And by the way, building community, just because you’re the one who’s sharing about something that so many of us are looking into or going through or trying to figure out ourselves, And whether you realized it or not, it sounds like you kind of replicated the same approach with Deep pop, deep Pocket Monster with the Pokemon Channel.


Pat: actually you’re, you’re absolutely right, except the difference here this time was I had a. Some skills that I knew how to do. Yeah. Like on YouTube, I knew how to tell story better. I knew how to connect with people and, and, and et cetera. Uh, stuff that I didn’t know how to do or was too scared to do before.

And that takes me to number two, which is, you know, the confidence, right? I have now some years under my belt doing this thing, so I’m not afraid to put myself out there anymore. And yes, I will get haters. And I had gotten haters. In fact, when I came into the space and people started seeing the videos blowing up a whole bunch of people who’ve been in the space for a while.

We’re essentially acting as gatekeepers. Like, Hey, who are you? You’re not, why are you? Right? Like, why are you here? Uh, you know, and, and, and, and what I discovered was a lot of these people were mostly just jealous because they’ve been in this for a while, they’ve been working hard, and, and they create decent content.

And then here comes this new guy who doesn’t know anything about Pokemon and then just like exceeds their, their views and subscribers and revenue. And it’s like, they get mad at me. They get mad at YouTube, but. Then I go, Hey, well, let me help you. Right? A lot of these people who were mad at me up front, I said, well, hey, this is, this stuff isn’t secret.

I teach this stuff. Let’s get on a call together and I can analyze your YouTube channel a little bit for you and help you out. Some people didn’t want to take me up on that offer. Many people did, and I’ve had one-on-one conversations with people. I can name them right now, and then they see their videos doing.

And now they’re massive fans. Mm-hmm. And now they’re at a point. Which leads me to, another thing that’s happening in this space right now is I’m putting on a live event in the Pokemon space. Remember two years ago, I didn’t know anything about this space. I was a nobody in this space. I’m hosting a live event.

This is what I talk about. My book, super Fans, create a space for these people to come together. I’ve done that online now. I’m doing that offline in June of 2023. Here I’m hosting an event called Card Party. I wanted it to be Poke Con, but. Would not be good with Pokemon in ip. So it’s card party and we have already sold over a thousand tickets.

I’ve not spent a dime on marketing and most of the top creators in the Pokemon space who have I’ve connected with or built friend friendships with, or you know, the people who are once haters. They’re coming to the event as well, and I’ve, I haven’t had to pay any of them to come. They just want to come, they usually get paid to go to Collect Con or Comic Con or all these kinds of places.

They just want to come and hang out. And this is gonna make it an incredible community event. And it’s not about me, but as a result of being the person who puts this together, I know it’s ultimately gonna come back to me as well. And everybody, you know, we’re gonna lift the whole community up together, so, I hope this is, as you said earlier, encouraging for people who are still trying to figure out where they want to go or what they want to get into.

If you focus on the human beings on the other end and giving them not just like the information, what they want, because information is available anywhere now, right? This is why the human experiences and those, those, those culture based things. Are what’s gonna make you stand out from everybody else now?

Especially as like AI’s coming in, it’s like, yeah, like the information is so freely accessible. Mm-hmm. And it’s even like smartly personalized to you now. Um, what’s gonna be the difference? How are you gonna stand out, create those experiences, build those communities? 

Jared: Man, so much of what you’re talking about reminds me of, um, my experiences as a professional photo.

Um, and watching that industry change from the old guard to the new guard from film photography and where the experience was all about the images, and as that transitioned to the new guard digital photography, the image became secondary to the experience that people had while they were, while they were engaging with the images and the process of creating the images and the old guard fighting the new guard because everything was changing.

From it all being about the picture to it being about the experience along with the picture and, and, and walking through all that. It reminds me so much of what you’re talking about here. The, sorry, just had a little video glitch. I gotta make that.

For you as it relates to the production of the videos. And I want to transition into maybe the production side of things, because your videos are very well produced and I, I know that’s overwhelming for a lot of people to think about. How, how much production does my video need? I don’t have those skill sets.

How much of the value that you’ve gotten in terms of subscribers and engagement and community is from that production value, and how important do, do people need to kind of think about that as they’re, as they’re relating to, uh, or as they’re starting to engage in a YouTube, uh, channel for themselves?

Pat: The production can definitely be scary, especially when you see all these quick cuts and zooms and all like, I don’t even know how to do that. But honestly, those things are. Supplemental to the story that you’re telling, right? For example, if you have a big point to make in a video, that’s the point where you zoom in when you, when you have that punchline, right, the zoom in enhances that punchline.

So it’s not just random, like these things are there to help support, but a great story doesn’t need any of that. If you have a great story and the editing, that’s, that’s even better. So a story trumps the editing and the quality of the video. In fact, there are several videos that have done very well and have built entire channels with terrible video quality because the story’s good.

There is a guy named, um, uh, Brent, who, Brent Brantwood, who went to the grocery store one day and he turned on his camera cuz he saw a lobster in an. That was gonna be sold for a meal. He decided to purchase it and raise it as a pet. This video went viral. Leon, the lobster is, is the lobster’s name. And this person had been on YouTube for a very long time, like seven or eight years.

And this video with not even the best thumbnail, um, had a title that connected with people purchasing a grocery store, lobster and raising it as, When you hear that immediately you click because you’re like, what? That’s different. I’m curious, is that possible? All these questions start coming up that make you wanna click, right?

And so the first process of winning on YouTube is understanding, well, what is a video title that would get clicks? And this is a big thing and a big difference for, you know, me being a podcaster in a, in a, in a blogger for. The way that I produced content before was I started with the content, the thing that was helpful or the thing that I wanted to create, and then at the end, figure out what the title was after, right?

Yep. Same thing with emails. Write the email, then figure out the subject line usually, but on YouTube. And now I’ve applied this to everything else because it works so well. I find the title first if I can, if I can, if I can brainstorm and get messy until I figure out a title that is both clickable and interesting and fires me.

Then I know that I can then film that video and it connects better that way because there’s a promise or or an expectation when a person clicks a video of what it is that they’re about to watch. And a lot of times if you do it the opposite way, Sure you might be able to write a good, uh, thumbnail, uh, or, or have a good thumbnail in title, but it can often feel click Beatty because you’re just trying to force that click versus mm-hmm.

Let’s make it something exciting to click and then get into that. And so that’s been a very, very big strategy. But with Leon, the lobster, it’s filmed on an iPhone. It’s not heavily cut. It’s just a great story. That first video after just a year and a half has 18 million views. Because of the story, so find the story and the title worth clicking.

Then create that video and you’ll find some amazing things happen. And like if you do that and that alone, you’ll be 75% ahead of most people who are trying to do stuff on YouTube. And then from there, it’s of course the retention strategies. How do, how do we get a person to stay watching the video after they’ve clicked, right?

So really good hook. And then moments in the story that sort of continue on. Eventually leads to a climax or an understanding or, or, or a reveal. And again, in the Pokemon space, it’s kind of built in, right? Here’s the box that we’re gonna open, we’re gonna see what’s inside, and at the end we’re gonna see whether or not I got my money back or I didn’t.

And so it’s like, okay, well once you open that, you know, loop, people are gonna stick around to the end to watch it. And that’s really a big secret for, um, the algorithm. The algorithm loves when you keep people on YouTube. If you can create a video that people stick around and. That’s like really, I mean, ultimately YouTube just wants people to stay on the platform so they can share more ads, right?

So if you can keep people on YouTube, on YouTube’s behalf, they’re going to reward you. They’re going to actually send that video to more people knowing that it’s gonna get people to stay. So then again, learning about storytelling. What keeps the people, what keeps people watching? Creating open loops and, and, and different engagement strategies and, and, uh, you know, going to different lo like e even even things such as if you’re doing like a vi a video and it’s like three top tips for whatever, just film each different tip in a different location.

Like that alone will reset people and it doesn’t feel as monotonous and being in a different location. Maybe tip number two, you’re literally walking your dog and it’s just like, oh, hey, hey, say hi to Scruffy. It’s like again, now people know like you’re even more relatable, but you’re still teaching, but you’ve reset the location and it just keeps people watching longer.

You’re more likely to get YouTube to push your video for you. But again, to go back to your question, production just enhances the story. And if you have a great story, you need very little extra things to still make it worthwhile to watch. 

Jared: How much storyboarding are you doing? Like are we talking about like, like, cuz I heard you mention the word arc and you know, like kind of more script writing almost.

I feel like. Um, are you really planning out the story and do you recommend that or is it really more what you said where it’s spend the time thinking about the title, which drives the content, and then get into it and make sure it’s captivating and make sure to use hooks and make sure to be diligent about how 

Pat: you film it.

Yeah, so. On Deep Pocket Monster. We do script it quite a bit. Um, but a lot of the things are scripted after it’s filmed because we don’t know what’s gonna happen. Exactly. I don’t know what’s in that box. I don’t know what cards there are. There are, so there is a lot of scripting because it’s, it’s a lot of voiceover stuff that’s happening.

Yeah. Um, if you watch a creator, his name is Ryan Trahan. It’s, it’s based on, uh, a lot of that style where he’s doing something interesting that’s worth watching, but then you almost kind of hear the voice in his head. While it’s happening very, um, how I met your mother in a way, if you will. Um, but I think, again, you don’t need to do that, right?

If the story is worth clicking on and the outcome is worth waiting for. Then you just fill in the gaps in a way that would be interesting, uh, to, to you when, and you just tell that story. For example, I, I was helping a person who does like Facebook ads on YouTube, uh, or teaches Facebook ads on, on YouTube and was gonna do a video.

It was like top five ways to use the new Facebook editor or something like Facebook ads editor. I’m like, well, that’s like everybody else was gonna create that same video. How do you make this interesting? What would get a person to stick around to. Okay, well, how about you start the video this way. Hey, Facebook just released their new editor and we’re gonna put it to the test.

I have a hundred dollars that I’m gonna spend on an ad, and we’re gonna see if I can double this or I might just lose the whole thing. Now you need to know whether it’s gonna work or not. And along the way, he can show you the five new things that came out. And he’s, he is like, okay, number one, the ad editor.

Look at this new thing. This wasn’t here before. And so I’m gonna put in my budget now. And okay, I don’t know if we’re, if we’re gonna get this back or not, but this is how you would use this if I were you, number 2, 3, 4, 5. And then boom, the reveal, you either won or lost. Either way, you’re still teaching people.

And you can even do a follow up video on that. Okay, we did it wrong last time, but let’s try, let’s try again for round two. And now people are continuing to watch and that’s why people subscribe. People don’t subscribe because of the video they just watched. Right? This is a very common misconception. It almost feels like a subscription is something you earn because of the video that you just created.

But what happens is people are subscribing because of the videos they know will come next. Right, right. That’s why we subscribe to something because of what we want to come our way next. This is, this was my problem on the Pat Flynn channel. I had videos about podcasting. Cool People subscribed because they wanted podcasting videos.

But then my next video was about affiliate marketing, or it was about, The mindset of an entrepreneur or, uh, business finances and those podcasting people who subscribe for podcasting, they see that come into their feed and they’re like, that’s not that. I don’t want that. And that then signals to YouTube, oh, I guess your subscribers don’t really want this, so we’re gonna throttle it because it’s not something that your subscribers want and we’re gonna, you know, We’re, we’re not gonna find audiences for it.

Versus if you niche down the riches are in the niches, you know, then every person will know every video is worth their time. And that’s, that’s the approach we’re taking on Deep Pocket Monster. 

Jared: You have teased different YouTube metrics throughout the interview so far. Let’s spend a little bit of time talking about as much of a deep dive as we can get into on some of the key metrics, um, in YouTube.

Some of the things you’ve learned. I. Uh, subscribers versus viewers versus watch time. Um, y you know, uh, like, let’s just get into the metrics and talk about some of the metrics and some of the things, some of the insights you have. 

Pat: YouTube is probably the best platform when it comes to delivering metrics for us, for, for anything that you can create online, and that is, Good and bad.

It’s bad because there’s a hundred thousand things you could look at and then you can get confused. So I only like to look at a few, uh, of the most relevant things. Number one is clickthrough rate. So whenever you publish a video, you want to know what the clickthrough rate of that video is. And in fact, YouTube will tell you right away what the clickthrough rate of that video is, even within the first like 10 to, to, um, to 30 minutes.

Wow. And if the click-through rate is, I would say less than 4%, That means you could do better, right? And you can even go back into time and look at the click through rate of your existing video library if you have one, and it, and, and just swap out the thumbnails and change the title. Uh, just hypothesize and see what might work better.

And you can see jumps almost instantly when that happens. You, YouTube almost gives you a second chance when you do that. They’ll, they’ll be like, okay, you change the title. We’re gonna see how this works. And if it works, cool, they’ll send it out to more people. If not, they’ll just, you know, it’ll still be throttled.

Um, so click through rate is important. Uh, and then watch. Like those are, if there were only two things to look at, it’s that, and that’s the click and stick strategy, right click through rate for people who, who are, you know, whether or not they wanna watch this or not. And then once they do wanna watch it, are they sticking around the click and then the stick?

Um, there’s a lot more. That you could look at, I would definitely look at your retention graph as well, um, that relates to the stickiness of your video. But you might find that there’s some cliffs in your retention graph. Uh uh which point to, okay, people left cuz they didn’t like what they heard or just aren’t interested.

So we look very diligently at that graph and try to get it to become as flatlined as possible. Mm-hmm. So we discovered, for example, that when we initially did our challenge video. I would like sit at my office, uh, here with Pokemon cards behind me. So it was like environmental, but I’d tell people what the challenge was gonna be and then I’d go do the challenge.

And we noticed that there was a pretty significant drop right at the beginning because people, you know, they didn’t really understand or, or weren’t, didn’t even care about that necessarily. But we said, okay, how can we hook people in the beginning? Let’s actually just start in the middle of the challenge with a trade that’s about to happen.

Cuz we found out that people, uh, almost rewatched the negotiations I do on some of the trades I do in person. And we’re like, oh, people really like that. What if we started a video with that and then told people what the rules were? How would that change things? And this just completely changed how many people watch our videos.

Uh, not just because people are sticking around longer, but because when people do that, YouTube sends it to even more people, right? So it’s almost like, uh, I don’t know if you’ve seen those dude, dude, perfect videos where they do these trick shots, uh, like that are really fascinating, you know, uh, they like throw a basketball over a house and it kind of goes in the hoop, uh, that they can’t even see.

Like, it’s, it’s pretty amazing what they’ve done. They start every video with a trick. And then they explain what the trick shots are about and then who the sponsor is and, and you know, they don’t even welcome people to the channel cuz you’re already into it. So with these videos, it’s like just get people into what it is that they are expecting when they click sooner.

And then along the way you can explain what’s going on and sort of reveal, I mean, watch any Mr. Beast video. He’s already being buried into the ground. In the first five seconds with what’s at stake. And then he goes, okay, and this is how this works. I got a oxygen tank. Here’s how I’m going to eat. And like, how do I go to the bathroom?

I haven’t figured that out yet. And, and now you’re getting the rules after you’re already roped in. Uh, so, so that alone can, can help as well. And you’ll see that again on the retention graph. And then same thing for the end. A lot of times we creators like to say, okay, and finally, here’s the last thing I wanna tell you.

And we. Prying people to get ready to leave? No, no, no, no. You just kind of like almost end abruptly. You still want to offer everything that you’re gonna offer, but then you, you don’t even give a chance for people to, to discover that this video is about to end, because then they can go and click into another video of yours right after.

Um, so we, we try to remove those, those downward ramps on a retention graph as much as possible. And the only way to know. What to do is to look at those graphs and the only way to see those graphs is to create content. So you have to create content and be messy. You gotta be a disaster before you become the master.

But those things that are disastrous will teach you how to get better. For sure. So again, there’s a million other metrics that you can look at, but those, those are the only basically two or three that I, that I recommend checking out. Man, it sounds so much like 

Jared: watching a TV show as well, right? Like it sounds like the recipe.

In many ways on YouTube has so many things to do with what is succeeding nowadays On a TV show or on Netflix, like a lot of times you’ll start and they’ll start halfway in and then. They’ll, they’ll come back 10 minutes later and they’ll say four days earlier and then, yeah. So they’ll start telling the story and you never end an episode of a TV show with a nice, slow wind down.

It’s always a crazy end that gets you to want to, even though it’s 11 o’clock at night and your kids are gonna be up early, you want to start the next episode because of that cliff hanger. Right. It has a lot of similar. 

Pat: And a lot of this that I’m learning on the Deep Pocket Monster Channel is now coming back into my podcast on spi.

And in our emails, if we have an email sequence, why dot we just close an email and say, Hey, thanks for reading this email. Why don’t we get them excited about the next email that’s coming? So they’re more primed to open it, same exact kind of thing. And um, it’s just, it’s just interesting what happens when you’re like, okay, I’m gonna obsess with what works and I’m just going to do everything I can to make it.

Even through all the failures and, and you just, it’s like I could have read a hundred books about YouTube. Just putting 10 videos out and learning what I learned there is, is so much more valuable. Okay, we’re 

Jared: getting up on time. I have two more topics I wanna get into with you, so let me see if I can, um, transition us, uh, a little bit off course, but I wanna get your thoughts on, nowadays with YouTube, there’s a lot of different ways we can make videos, right?

We can make a standard video and we can publish it. We can do lives, we can do. How does all this play into a strategy and is, is it important to consider all the different, we’ll call ’em mediums on YouTube when you’re constructing a strategy. There’s 

Pat: also podcasts now that you can upload video podcasts and, and that’s a thing I didnt know that.

Uh, yeah. So YouTube is, is is apparently very much in favor of the multi-format creator. And, you know, there were a lot of people who were confused even last year like, Hey, if I’m doing shorts and a long form podcast and lives, like, should all, should all those be on separate channels? And that’s what people were doing to kind of like make sure things weren’t sabotaging each other.

Cuz the algorithms were almost confused. But now it’s become very apparent. I’ve, I’ve even gotten word from the people at YouTube that if you have. Uh, an audience. Um, same audience, same channel, right? So if short form video, long form video podcast live, if it’s all targeting the same audience, keep it on the same channel.

These things will and should push, uh, and, and amplify each other, uh, different audience, different channel. Um, but that being said, I feel like if you had to choose one, I would still continue to do long form video. Okay. I mean, I’ve seen some stats even from like, Curious about the ads perspective. It would take 75 million views of a, of, of shorts to match.

I, I think it was Roberto Blake or somebody who, who showed a stat. He was like, um, he was showing his revenue from one of his videos and he’s like, I would need 75 million short views to match what I got on this one video from Longs. Um, and yes, like you can reach a lot of people, but in this world where I.

Community and connection is gonna be more important than ever. I don’t wanna be the creator who’s like, handing out Halloween candy, right? Like, here’s a snack and then move on. Right. I want to be the chef that people make sure to reserve months ahead of time because the food is so good. And I want people to, when they come into my restaurant, to just have an experience and a four course meal and, and stay there for hours.

Right. That’s the, that’s the equivalent of binge watching, uh, content. So I wanna be the chef, not the, the, the person at the end of the neighborhood who, yeah, I can still have the best candy, but then people aren’t thinking about me anymore after that. They’re not coming back until next year. I want people to come back and reserve, uh, and, and, and bring their friends into the restaurant to experience something.

Mm-hmm. That’s 

Jared: a good way to put shorts versus long form. I hadn’t heard it. That’s a great way to 


Pat: it. Guess. Guess who taught me that? Uh. I have no idea. Chad g p t. Give me a metaphor. Give me five meta metaphors that describe the difference between short form content and long form content. That was my prompt and it gave me that snack one.

I was like, this is genius. And then I actually used that on stage last month and people were like, yo, I love that snack metaphor. I didn’t tell them that chat, G P T gave it to me, but. That’s the power of of Chat gt. 

Jared: And there we have our first AI mention of today’s podcast. It does, took a little while.

Yeah, man. Metaphors are up its alley as well. Who would’ve thought? Yep. Um, hey, final question as we start to wrap up. I just want to, I wanna get this in. Spencer and I were actually talking about this a couple weeks ago on a, on a live that we were doing on, on our weekly live. Where, um, monetization on YouTube and, um, the numbers you shared were amazing.

Just the, the profit from a CPM standpoint or in terms of the ads that are on YouTube and then also from sponsorships and that, that sort of realm. Um, we could do a whole podcast on that, but I want to ask just a specific question that I think will be really helpful for people listening. When is it time to start pursuing sponsorships?

Or do you wait till them, till they come to you? Is there any tips in sponsorships? Because it seems like a lot of people understand how to monetize with ads on YouTube. You wait till you hit the number and then you can control that. But sponsorships are kind of a, a dark hole, a bit of a black hole for people.

Understanding some of the specifics of that, any tips you can share for people? 

Pat: Yeah, brand deals are, are great. It’s another way to monetize beyond ads, and I wouldn’t just focus on. Um, stream of income ads, you know, your videos can be demonetized, something can happen. Whatever, uh, brand deals are, are, are another way to generate revenue from your videos and, you know, You need some views in order, uh, to attract a, a particular company, but I think it’s relevant to the industry that you’re in there.

You, you might still only have thousands of views versus millions of views, but still be attractive to a potential company who you can partner with. Now, before even getting into brand deals, I would start rec, uh, I would recommend affiliate marketing cuz you can even promote those items and, and share affiliate links.

Even from day one, right? Even with zero views, uh, under your belt, because those are things that can then be found later, and then those become passive income streams over time. If you do a review for a product or you share how you used something, and then people can go check it out themselves if they want.

So that, that’s where I would start. Brand deals can come later. In fact, brand deals can come after affiliate marketing. You could do some good volume for them first. Some of those videos can pop off. And that’s a great starting point for you to go, Hey, brand. Like I did a video, uh, for you guys a while back and it kind of blew up.

Like we should do some partnerships together. Like how can we get more exposure for you, uh, to to, to this audience? And that’s where you can kind of start and initiate that. Um, so, so that’s a good thing to do. And if you sell your own products as well, using YouTube could be a little tricky because of course we want people to stay on YouTube.

To grow on YouTube, but you also want to take people off of YouTube to your own. And the way to, to go around that would be to essentially not talk about your product in every video, but every once in a while organically mention it or, or promote it or, or say, Hey, this video is sponsored by my own product.

And you can use your own product as like, or as sort of like a brand deal inside of your own videos as well, and, and that often will work. Um, but if you do that all the time, then you’re just encouraging people to leave YouTube. And YouTube doesn’t like that. So every once in a while, 

Jared: Good point. There’s one thing from an analytics standpoint, I love how you talked about keeping people on YouTube.

That’s what YouTube wants, so therefore they will reward you with more traffic. Um, yep. Oh, so many things we could keep talking about, but we, I think, are at our time. Um, pat, thanks so much for coming on board. Like I said at the beginning, we could have talked about so many of the different things you’re working on, but I really enjoy the deep dive that we went down on this Pokemon brand.

What are the fun, 

Pat: what are the plans, fun of the future? Yeah, so this event is, is the next big thing. And then doing, uh, bigger things in the space to offer more value to the community. Um, I’ve got some plans that I can’t quite share yet, but uh, it should be fun. And then SPI is really focused on community right now.

We’ve been building our all access pass and it’s been really, really amazing to see thousands of people come into a program to get access to all of our courses. But you know, it’s not just the information like we were talking about earlier, that they. The accountability, the support, the guidance through those courses.

And that’s what we’ve built and how we’ve restructured our, our programming. So that’s been really awesome. And, uh, yeah, you can check that all [email protected] 

Jared: Perfect. I was gonna ask, where is the best place for people to follow along? So there it is. We’ll get that link in the show notes. Um, well Pat, let’s, let’s not make it 11 more years.

Maybe we will, uh, try to get another one scheduled before. What would that be? 34. 

Pat: There we go. Well, you’re gonna be on my show soon, so make sure you subscribe to the Smart Passive Income podcast, so you could hear Jared and, uh, we’ll have some more fun there and more time to chat. 

Jared: The rules will be flipped for that one, so that’ll be fun.

I’m usually in this seat, not the other ones, so that’ll be a lot of fun. Thanks. Um, well, hey, until, until next time, pat, thanks so much for coming on. Thanks so much for your sharing and, uh, continued success for not only your YouTube channel, but everything you’re doing. You’re such an inspiration for all of us, and we appreciate you shop stopping 

Pat: by and.

Thank you so much. I appreciate you.


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